Talk:George Ballentine
Not sure what do about the templates. He is historical but I doubt we can find anything about him. What did you do about the black soldiers in Fort Pillow (Novel) TR? Maybe we can do the same here. This could also apply to the others in the 47th that show up. ML4E 23:39, November 8, 2011 (UTC) :I found records on nearly every black soldier who appears in FP. Those I couldn't find I called fictional. :The only suggestion I can make is Google search for what feels like a reasonable time, then call him fictional if you can't find them. TR 23:57, November 8, 2011 (UTC) ::If you ask me, I'd be okay with having him get a historical template that contained only his name. Sometimes the information just isn't there, like those two Soviet brigadier generals in UtB who co-commanded the partisans with Kurt Chill. Turtle Fan 00:00, November 9, 2011 (UTC) :Oh, I misread that completely. Yes, TF's idea is just fine. Historical with name and whatever we got. TR 01:50, November 9, 2011 (UTC) I found several references to a George Ballentine but he was an Englishman who enlisted in the US army during the Mexican War. When I added American Civil War to the search terms, I got several books on the ACW published by Ballentine Books. <_< If it weren't for Turtledove's historical notes, and / or his association with the 47th, you wouldn't know he was a historical. ML4E 00:19, November 11, 2011 (UTC) OTL death? "In 1927, he was one of several black men who received a pension from the North Carolina legislature for his service during the war." Does this imply he was still alive in 1927?JonathanMarkoff (talk) 18:40, September 15, 2017 (UTC) :It would appear so. TR (talk) 18:44, September 15, 2017 (UTC) :Odd. Also odd that North Carolina gave out such pensions at all, come to think of it. Turtle Fan (talk) 05:55, September 16, 2017 (UTC) ::There were moments when the voices of the better angels came through. Not many, and they were quickly gagged again. TR (talk) 15:56, September 16, 2017 (UTC) :::And since these particular angels were rewarding service in the rebellion, the better angels highlight that "better" need not mean "good." Turtle Fan (talk) 00:57, September 17, 2017 (UTC) ::::It does mean "good" in this case. The average joe slobs, particularly the black ones, were suckered into joining the rebellion and definitely deserved compensation for their misplaced labour.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 11:37, September 17, 2017 (UTC) :::::There were always ways of avoiding service. It was also possible to surrender at the first opportunity, or even to work against the rebellion from within, as the Fort Jackson mutineers did. :::::As for black Confederate soldiers: If they existed (and ML4E's difficulties authenticating Ballentine's existence are typical of every one of them I've ever heard of) you'd have to be quite the sucker indeed to sign up. Turtle Fan (talk) 23:40, September 17, 2017 (UTC) ::::::Ballentine was recorded as a cook and doing some other support work. It's not so unusual for an oppressed group to try dancing to their oppressors' tune in the hopes that this time it will be different, and this time, the oppressor will actually keep their promise. TR (talk) 23:55, September 17, 2017 (UTC) :::::::I don't want to suggest HT lied to us or anything, so I'm prepared to accept that Ballentine existed, but based on the above ML4E was not able to find any info independent of the GotS afterword. This is typical of the handful of black Confederate soldiers (not cooks and teamsters and such) of whom I've heard over the years: such a paucity of available information that you can't even come up with reliable anecdotes about their service, much less hard data. ::::::::To be fair, Turtledove had access to various documents and books about the 47th North Carolina that presumably are not available online. In the GotS "Afterword", he talks about Ballentine and how he worked as a servant for the company after his owner deserted. The above search I did was nearly six years ago so more may be available now, e.g. the Google book scanning project and so on. ML4E (talk) 17:36, September 18, 2017 (UTC) :::::::::Here's what I found. http://www.genealogy.com/forum/regional/states/topics/nc/27273/ TR (talk) 17:48, September 18, 2017 (UTC) :::::::And of course you're right, it's always possible to find a few members of the underclass who are desperate to believe the oppressor's willing to make things better. Add in the tight control that the oppressors had over slaves' access to information (though word of the Emancipation Proclamation is known to have spread widely through the slave cabins) and poor old Ballentine may not have known that all he had to do to become a free man was wait for the liberating army and stand ready to assist them at need. Turtle Fan (talk) 06:08, September 18, 2017 (UTC)